Some Parking Advice for Santa as He Prepares for His Forthcoming Visit to Bernal

December 21, 2015 / Todd_Lappin / 44 Comments

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Dear Santa,

As you know, we’ve been very good in Bernal Heights this year, so we’re really excited about your forthcoming visit. However, as you plan your trip to our lovely neighborhood, we wanted to share this urgent pro tip: Don’t street-park your sleigh while making your rounds in Bernal.

Sadly, it seems there isn’t much seasonal cheer when it comes to street parking here. For example, Neighbor Valerie shared a photo of the sign shown above; it was was spotted on a Prospect Street after some sad neighbors had their car towed away at the behest of another neighbor with an unresolved Grinch complex. Awwww.

Meanwhile, Neighbor Ashley explains why she won’t be parking on Newman:

I just learned something that I think some of my fellow Bernalese (at least those south of Cortland) traveling this holiday season may appreciate knowing as they prepare to depart. If you leave your car on Newman for more than three days, one of the residents of that street will apparently call the city and have your car ticketed, or so I was warned.

Backstory: I’ve lived on Ellert for 9 years and never noticed that Newman didn’t have street cleaning. I went to move my car this morning and asked a couple who was standing outside of their house if they had street cleaning today (it being the 2nd Monday of the month). They told me they had no street cleaning. Shocked, I blurted out, “So I can leave my car here when I go away?” One of them replied, “Well, we like to park here too.”

I get it. I feel slightly inconvenienced when I have to park more than a block away because I’m so used to being able to park on my street or right around the corner. I know that’s ridiculous.

I told them that I was only going away for three days – I didn’t want them to think I was going to become a parking squatter or anything. I also hoped it would garner me some sympathy. That’s when the other person told me that “one of the neighbors” will call the city if you leave your car there for more than three days.” I got the message and promised I wouldn’t park there. Which I won’t. I don’t want to inconvenience my fellow Bernalese or come home to a ticket.

I’m not passing judgment on the neighborliness of calling the city on your fellow Bernal residents who park on a street not their own for extended, or semi-extended periods of time, forcing residents on that street to park a block or two away. I’m assuming this is a real problem (otherwise why would they call the city?), and it’s one I don’t face so I don’t actually know how frustrating it is. I’d probably be bit miffed though. The point of this long, boring story is just to let other people facing a similar parking dilemma that Newman St. may not be a good idea.

Happy holidays!

Got that, Santa? Just leave the sleigh in hover mode, and we’ll have some sugar cookies waiting on a plate when you drop by.

Oh, and one more thing: If you could also pick up any reindeer poop left behind by Donner, Dasher, Dancer, Prancer, Vixen,, et al., bag it, and put it in a nearby garbage can, that would be great too. Cool?

Thanks again, big guy!!

Yours,

The Citizens of Bernalwood

Petition Process Underway to Create Residential Parking Permit Area for North Bernal

September 23, 2015September 23, 2015 / Todd_Lappin / 133 Comments

Though opinions on the wisdom of implementing Residential Parking Permit (RPP) in North Bernal appear to be polarized, a process is nevertheless underway to implement an RPP district in Precitaville and Santana Rancho.

SFMTA recently set up a dedicated page for North Bernal RPP planning. It explains:

Residents of North Bernal, generally defined as the blocks south of Cesar Chavez Street and east of Mission Street, organized two widely advertised community meetings to educate the public about the residential permit process. Both were held at the Precita Neighborhood Center. The SFMTA presented information at both meetings describing the residential permit program so residents could make an informed decision on whether to support permit parking.

The next step in the RPP process is collecting signatures for the North Bernal Residential Permit Parking Petition. SFMTA says the petition allows residents to express support or opposition to residential permit parking for their block. To succeed, “the petition requires signatures from at least 250 households (or 50 percent of total households, whichever is less), and must contain a minimum of one mile of street frontage.”

How would the program would be implemented if the petition indicates that support for the proposed RPP is uneven from one North Bernal block to the next? That’s not entirely clear, though SFMTA says “the boundaries of the new resident permit parking area will include those blocks with a majority of households in support of permit parking. This suggests that the initial rollout of a North Bernal RPP could be irregular from street to street and block to block, depending on how many households on each block signed the petition. (Academic question: Doesn’t this seem like a RPP version of the Prisoner’s Dilemma, on a block-by-block basis?)

To learn more about the proposal, visit the SFMTA’s North Bernal Residential Parking Petition site, or email questions or concerns to InfoRPP@sfmta.com.

MAP: Existing RPP areas near North Bernal, via SFTMA

What Deference Is Owed to the Parking Spot In Front of a Neighbor’s House?

September 10, 2015September 10, 2015 / Todd_Lappin / 114 Comments

Recently, Neighbor R found this note on the windshield:

Dear neighbor, it has been a tradition on our block in Bernal for over 30 years, that homeowners were granted the courtesy of parking in front of their homes. Obviously, these are city streets, but it would be very thoughtful of you to abide by this. I often have large and heavy things to load and unload. Your neighbor, XXX

Neighbor R shared a photo of the note without comment (and Bernalwood blurred out the original note-writer’s name in the image above).

But what did neighbor R make of the request? When pressed by Bernalwood to register an opinion, Neighbor R had this to say:

My natural reaction was actually some level of empathy. There are indeed a lot of “unspoken” parking rules in Bernal, and some of them are sensible (and most of them are actually just the law – like the 72 hour rule), so I can totally imagine someone writing a note if they were parked in “my” spot in front of my house for over 3 days (in fact, I have! I don’t tow).

But we had been parked for 3 hours at the point of receiving this note, and that makes the person seem grossly entitled. If you’re someone with a special circumstance (older, disabled, etc) I can imagine asking the nice favor of people trying to give you “your” spot, but I’d probably first post a sign rather than just leaving passive aggressive notes on cars.

To be fair, this is the absolute nicest, most well-meaning passive-aggressive note I’ve seen. The only implication of entitlement is the need to carry “heavy things” frequently (which raises a lot of questions anyway) but moreover it’s the fact of writing the note itself that reeks of entitlement. I have small kids and I am definitely ANNOYED when I don’t get “my” spot and have to haul them back and forth a block to the car, but that’s a far cry from me actually acting out based on that feeling.

Maybe it’s just another symptom of the “gentrification” debate — people who got used to things being a certain way and feel wronged now that things are changing. I get that. I can empathize with almost any feeling that people have, but actions are a totally different story. I just wish that this person understood that receiving a note like this, no matter how much I know I wasn’t in the “wrong” to park in a 100% public street parking space, makes me feel unwelcome and on edge.

And with that, the stage is set. Let the dialectics begin!

Where does neighborliness end, and where does tradition begin? (And vice-versa.)

Is this a classic case of Baby Boomer entitlement syndrome? Or is is emblematic of heedless newcomer narcissism?

It this a quintessential statement of our times? Or is it just a Rorschach Test for your own experience of the present moment?

So many angles to discuss. So many avenues to explore.

PHOTO: Neighbor R

Tonight: Mysterious Meeting to Establish Parking Permits for North Bernal

July 28, 2015July 28, 2015 / Todd_Lappin / 91 Comments

Neighbor MM spotted handbills from the so-called “Northeast Bernal Parking Alliance” drifting around Precitaville. Apparently, there’s a meeting tonight, Tuesday, July 28 at 7 pm at the Precita Valley Neighborhood Center to discuss a proposal to turn much of North Bernal into an official Residential Permit Parking (RPP) zone. Neighbor MM writes:

Perhaps you have seen these around? I am always a little suspicious about things like this with no email address or URL, and I can’t find anything online when I search Northeast Bernal Parking Alliance. Which leads me to believe this is the work of one irate neighbor who is about to ruin things for all of us. My opinion: While I’ve noticed some parking problems, notably neighbors leaving their cars in the same spot for weeks or months on end, people need to realize that once you call in the DPT – there is no undo. Sure one person from Google might get a ticket, but once the DPT begins patrolling the streets and marking up cars, we the residents will get the bulk of the tickets. Nearly every driveway on my street sports at least 20 cars that are parked in driveways and are kind of sort of a little bit blocking the sidewalk. Ticket! When we go away and have relatives housesit? Ticket! A friend from another neighborhood coming by for lunch and a long walk? Can’t park here! I lived in the Mission prior to Bernal and residents fought to get two hour parking on our street and I didn’t think much about it – until I realized my car was registered in San Mateo, not San Francisco, and I couldn’t get a permit. It was a huge pain for me, and all the things I mentioned above happened. It is not worth it. It is already illegal to park for more than 72 hours and that takes care of the big problems. People parking for the day? Shrug. In many cases it is merely an exchange. I leave and drive to work and someone takes my place, leaves at the end of the day and I take it back. It’s okay. I’ll go to this meeting but I urge people to consider what it means when the DPT starts patrolling. YOU get the ticket, not some imaginary bus riding tech worker from the Marina.

Hmmm. We do wonder: Why does the graphic on the handbill include so many question marks? Who is the “Northeast Bernal Parking Alliance?” Who are they allied with? Is this another one of those Ron Conway organizations that seeks to further gentrify San Francisco? Or is it instead the leading edge of yet another imperialist Calle24 plot to annex North Bernal and transform it into a private parking preserve? To get answers to these and other questions, attend the meeting tonight:

Wednesday: A Conversation About Parking Woes in North Bernal

June 23, 2015June 23, 2015 / Todd_Lappin / 79 Comments

Amid all the highly energized conversations happening in Our Faire City about scarce housing, a growing population, a booming economy, exclusionary zoning, and nativist resentment, it’s somewhat remarkable that there has been so relatively little anxiety expressed in recent years about street parking in Bernal Heights.

Apart from the usual tempo of passive aggressive parking note gems, the Bernalwood Public Sentiment Tracking System has not detected much recent change in the intensity of conversation about street parking — other than to say that the conversation is always somewhat intense. But beneath the surface, tensions have come to a boil. According to a new handbill circulating in North Bernal, the parkopalypse is here, and the time for an Urgent Conversation About Street Parking is now.

Tomorrow, June 24, at 7 pm in the Precita Neighborhood Center, an ad hoc group of Bernal neighbors will gather to commiserate about street parking and discuss what is to be done. If that sounds like your kind of thing, then this may be just the kind of thing for you.

Oh, and if you go, please report back here on the outcome.

PHOTO: Above, Neighbor Simon; below, Telstar Logistics

Scooter-Sharing Scheme Is a Brilliant Idea, Executed Not So Thoughtfully

April 28, 2015 / Todd_Lappin / 42 Comments

Your Bernalwood editor has been on the receiving end of a steady stream of grumblings about Scoot Networks, the scooter-sharing startup with sharing locations in Bernal Heights. We wrote about Scoot for the first time last August, but since then the company has expanded its reach in Bernal — and the grumblings have expanded with it.

Here’s one from Neighbor Adele:

Are you thinking of offering any more coverage on the ‘Scoot’ fleet taking up street parking issue? I am actually a daily bicycle commuter so I’m not the worlds biggest parking advocate, but I actually get a serious sense of unease and frustration seeing branded scooters from a private fleet blanketing my street (Folsom near Bessie). They are all over, and to be clear, they are taking up all manner of spots. It just feels like another part of the Airbnb-ification of the neighborhood. I don’t see this precedent from car sharing companies. Obviously public entities have a major role in PLANNING the extension of the much more innocuous bicycle shares into new locations. Is it too much to ask for some planning to go into the extension of private, for-profit transit systems into our residential neighborhood?

Like Neighbor Adele, your Bernalwood editor does not require street parking, so I have no personal reason to begrudge Scoot’s presence.

Unlike Neighbor Adele, your Bernalwood editor doesn’t really mind if private companies use public space once in a while. Private companies have contracted to use public space to do all sorts of things since pretty much forever, and so long as these arrangements are properly authorized and generally serve the public interest, then I think that’s fair play.

Yet it’s easy to understand why many Bernal neighbors are frustrated by all those red scooters. Scoot Networks does not have designated parking spaces for its vehicles, and the Bernalese who use Scoot often park their shared scooters in ways that squander precious street parking space. In theory, five or six scooters can easily park in the space occupied by one car, but in practice, when five or six Scoots park haphazardly in spaces that would be a better fit for larger vehicles, neighbors end up with far fewer places to park.

Mostly, it seems that Scoot might work better with dedicated, designated scooter parking spaces. Here on glamorous Precita Avenue, for example, there are lots of odd sidewalk bulbs and short curbs between driveways where cars simply won’t fit. Those would be excellent for designated scooter-only parking. Instead, however, Scoots often park randomly, and often in the most inefficient ways possible.

That seems like a loss for everyone. It obviously stinks for neighbors who end up with fewer places to park close to home. It probably stinks for Scoot customers, who don’t have a designated place to go find their rides. It can’t do much to help Scoot’s brand, because although the company gets good marks from customers, the current parking scheme encourages neighbors to develop the kind of festering resentment that only street-parking issues can generate. And most of all, it doesn’t help rally support for the larger cause of ridesharing, which is a very positive urban transportation alternative in our tech-enabled age.

Bummer for all of us. Scoot is a good thing, but there must be a more elegant way to integrate it into the fabric of the neighborhood.

PHOTOS: Scoots parking badly in Bernal Heights, by Telstar Logistics

This Is Why You Should Never Ever Leave Stuff Inside Your Parked Car

March 10, 2015March 10, 2015 / Todd_Lappin / 43 Comments

Ever wonder what one of those guys who smash windows and grab stuff from inside parked cars looks like? Wonder no more, because Neighbor Bud got some crisp security-cam footage of a would-be thief evaluating a potential target on Bocana:

Saturday, March 7th, at 5:40AM, a person with a backpack and a burglar tool came walking down Bocana Street, checking out cars to break into. Our camera caught him checking out our car in front of our home. He came from the direction of Powhattan and was headed downhill toward Eugenia.

Here’s the infuriating security camera vid:

On a Road Trip Around the World, French Family Parks on Bernal Hill

October 20, 2014October 21, 2014 / Todd_Lappin / 5 Comments

Large vehicles modified for mobile habitation tend to attract lots of attention when they’re parked on Bernal Hill. Last weekend your Bernalwood editor paid particular attention to a very large vehicle parked on Bernal Hill that was very clearly intended for mobile habitation.

But this was no ordinary house on wheels. It was a giant-ass overland truck, equipped with four-wheel-drive and substantial cross-country modifications. Specifically, it was what’s called an expedition vehicle — the kind of thing you drive when you’re doing a road trip, say, from Morocco to India. It even had French license plates:

So stylish. And so clever! Our Municipal Transportation Agency does not yet have an extradition treaty with the government of France, so French license plates are a handy accessory to avoid paying San Francisco parking fines. But we digress…

The graphic on the side of the truck pointed us toward the Martin autour du monde website:

That’s where we began to unravel why this apocalypse-ready intercontinental French RV was parked on the top of Bernal Hill. The introduction video provided a mission statement (in French):

A family. A house on wheels. Five years. Five continents. The world is theirs. In search of exceptional places, they cross deserts, oceans, lakes, and towns. On all their routes, they stay close to the people.

Well, at least that’s what I think it said — my French is a little rusty. The basic idea seems to be a kind of modern-day Swiss Family Robinson, only with a French family, a badass RV, an environmental education mission, and a video production contract.

Anyway, Bernalwood also found photos of the truck that’s parked on Bernal Hill, parked in some other rather exotic places. Like this:

And this:

At the very least, our new French neighbors are quite good at scenic parking. It was time to welcome them to Bernal Heights.

Bernalwood knocked politely on the side of the truck. Frederic Cébron opened the door, and welcomed us inside, where we met his wife Laure, their son Martin, age 9, and daughter Chine, age 6. The interior of the vehicle looked compact, modern, and efficient, like one of those tiny IKEA display apartments they set up inside the stores.

In the back, Martin and Chine were laughing and playing:

Laure was making some snacks.

Frederic said the family is in year four of their five-year tour. Along the way, they’ve been documenting innovative ways people are practicing good ecology and sustainable living. They came to San Francisco to visit Recology, our globally fashionable, zero waste-aspiring trash processing facility, as well as several other waste management and recycling initiatives in the Bay Area.

Frederic explained that the family’s journey began with a comprehensive tour of South America. Then they shipped the truck back to Europe, and drove it from Turkey to Tibet via Iran and India. From there it was off to Mongolia, then down to Laos, Cambodia, and Indonesia. In between they make videos like this:

There was a hop to Japan, and an arrival in North America at Montreal. From there they drove to Alaska, down to Vancouver, and eventually to Bernal Heights.

Bernalwood encouraged Frederic to call ahead next time they decide to visit Bernal Heights, so we can arrange a more proper welcome.

As things stand, Frederic said they had a nice stay here, that they’ve enjoyed their view of the I-280 Spaghetti Bowl, and that that only one Bernal neighbor warned the Cébron family that their planet-traversing home on wheels had been parked on Bernal Hill for more than the legal maximum of 72 hours. He also spoke very highly of the neighborly hospitality the family had received when they were parked in Teheran.

The Cébrons are overlanding to San Diego next. After that, they drive into Mexico and around much of Central America, before bringing their five-year journey to an end in Panama.

Against that backdrop, Bernal Heights might not be the most exotic place the family has been. But it may well be one of the most glamorous. Bon voyage, Frederic, Laure, Martin, and Chine!

PHOTOS: Cébrons in Bernal Heights, by Telstar Logistics

New Restrictions Prohibit Overnight Parking for Non-Small Vehicles Around Holly Park

September 4, 2014September 4, 2014 / Todd_Lappin / 40 Comments

Neighbor Karoline noticed some new signs, and a change in the parking regime, around Holly Park:

I was wondering if anyone has noticed or already written about the new parking restrictions around Holly Park?

As a 6 year Bernalwood resident and a driver of an over sized Sprinter van (which is my daily driver), this came as quite a shock when I was about to park for the night on Tuesday. I don’t always use the park, but it sure is a nice option in a pinch.

These signs are on both the inner and outer circles of Holly Park Circle. Do you have any info as to when this was implemented?

PHOTO: Neighbor Karoline

Is It OK if a Scooter-Sharing Company Uses Two Street Parking Spaces on Coleridge?

August 4, 2014August 3, 2014 / Todd_Lappin / 86 Comments

Neighbor Valerie wants to know how and why a scooter-sharing company decided to occupy two motorcycle parking spaces on Coleridge:

I wanted to alert you to the next (potential) wave in the Great Parking Wars of Bernal Heights.

This morning, we woke up to discover that Scoot — the new startup that rents scooters by the hour— has taken up two designated motorcycle spots on Coleridge Street. Let it be known that I am not against these type of transportation sharing companies — I think ZipCar is awesome — but I do have an issue with a company taking up public parking spots to make a profit.

My wife owns a motorcycle, as do many people in our neighborhood, so a company taking these public spots for their own business endeavors makes an already tight parking situation even worse. As she noted, the result of this will be that local two-wheeled owners will now have to occupy full car parking spaces (which they are legally entitled to do) and reduce the availability of parking in the neighborhood.

What perplexes us is how a commercial endeavor can claim the use of public spaces without the need for placards, notifications, or neighborhood surveys? It was the neighborhood that petitioned for these designated motorcycle spaces in the first place, and we personally know most of the bike owners that park there. By using public parking spots for their own profit, this effectively reduces our designated two-wheeled parking by 30%.

I called 311 to see if perhaps they could shed some light on this, and they have referred my inquiry to SFMTA. The operator did note that the City currently rents out parking spaces to companies like ZipCar, but this often occurs in locations like City-owned parking garages (where anyone would have to pay to park). These spots are also very clearly marked with ZipCar signs. I’ve also noticed ZipCar locations throughout the neighborhood but they are all located on private property, where I’m sure they are also paying rent for those spaces.

My guess is that the City does not know that Scoot is using public spaces to market their service (given the strong stance they took on the startups that were trying to save and sell public parking spots for a profit, I’d be shocked that they’re okay with this).

On Scoot’s webpage, it appears that they have a mix of parking located in private parking garages and the expansion to the public streets is relatively new.

I’ve attached a screenshot of Scoot’s instructions when parking in our neighborhood. Basically park anywhere between Virginia and the designated motorcycle parking at 82 Coleridge (oh and try not to take up a spot that a car could fit in):

I can envision the passive aggressive parking notes now. While they advise their members to be mindful of the next street cleaning date, I’m wondering how they plan to address that. Is someone from the company going to come out and actually make sure the scooters are moved during street cleaning days? What about those scooters that are parked in the same spot for over 72 hours? Will they ensure that doesn’t happen?

My wife is a conscientious motorcycle rider and does not want to take additional parking from the neighbors we’ve grown to love, but she can’t risk the damage of her bike getting knocked over, vandalism, or parking tickets because a scooter company is squatting in public parking. Unfortunately this will often mean that she ends up taking a larger spot than she needs in an attempt to avoid having her bike hit as cars park/pull out of the spots around it.

I’ve put a call into the City, she’s emailed the scooter company, and I plan to contact David Campos’ office on Monday. We would just like clarification on how this works — can a private company use public parking to make a profit? The way the entire thing has gone down just seems shady to me.

PHOTO: The disputed motorcycle parking spaces on Coleridge, by Neighbor Valerie

Security Camera Captures Cranky Person Leaving Cranky Parking Notes on Elsie

July 14, 2014July 14, 2014 / Todd_Lappin / 87 Comments

A neighbor on Elsie was bemused to find this cranky parking note placed under the windshield wipers of many cars on the street.:

This was placed on many cars on the block, most of which DO belong to people on the street. I checked our security footage and saw someone doing it at 9:50pm. Unfortunately, the picture wasn’t very good.

It’s true; the picture isn’t very good. Then again, it’s better than no picture at all. Bernalwood has reviewed the security camera video, and we can confirm that it clearly reveals Cranky Parking Note-Leaver Person on Elie as a vigorous biped, and not… something else.

Here’s a still image of Cranky Parking Note-Leaver Person, leaving cranky parking notes on Elsie during the evening of July 10, 2014:

Birth Control Proposed as Long-Term Remedy for Problematic Parking on Bocana

June 5, 2014June 5, 2014 / Todd_Lappin / 82 Comments

Neighbor Esther recently found this note from the “Bocana Parking Psycho” (her phrase) plastered to the window of a parked car taking up two (2) precious street spaces:

Spotted on tonight’s dog walk. That’s a condom packet taped to the upper left.

PHOTO: Neighbor Esther

Small Gesture of Parking Courtesy Rewarded with Generous Gift of Artisanal Canned Tuna

April 2, 2014April 2, 2014 / Todd_Lappin / 29 Comments

It was the kind of gesture that would come naturally to any proper Citizen of Bernalwood: The parking space in front of my home was available, and a blue Volkswagen station wagon was attempting to park there. But there was a glitch.

My car was parked right behind the Volkswagen, so to avoid bashing my front bumper, the Volkswagen driver left a big gap between their car and mine. Much appreciated, but as a result the nose of the Volkswagen crossed into the red-painted curb that marks the entrance to my next-door neighbor’s driveway. And she really doesn’t like that.

I gestured to the driver. “Hey,” I said. “You might want to back up a little bit. You can nudge my car, but my neighbor doesn’t like it when people park in the red zone.”

A great wave of relief flashed across the Volkswagen driver’s face, as if a deep source of anxiety had suddenly been erased. And so it was done: The Volkswagen backed up another foot or two, its rear bumper gently smooched the front of my car, and the red curb zone was cleared. Parking optimization complete!

I might have ended there, but the female passenger in the Volkswagen — a woman who, it must be said, bore a rather conspicuous resemblance to Carrie Brownstein from Portlandia — emerged from the vehicle and thanked me for helping them avoid a day-ruining parking ticket.

“Do you eat canned tuna?” she asked.

What?? Of course I eat canned tuna. Still, I advised her that I already have several cans of tuna on my pantry shelves, thankyouverymuch.

She was undaunted. “But this is very special canned tuna! We’re from Seattle, and we canned this tuna ourselves!” She pointed to the driver of the Volkswagen. “He caught it on his boat!”

Artisanal cans of tuna? With tuna from his boat? Right here in front of my house in Bernal Heights? Is this really happening? Have I become a character in a bourgeois urban parody?

She handed me two cans of tuna. “Eat it with the water in the can. It tastes best that way.”

The cute label identified it as Carol M Albacore tuna, containing tuna caught aboard the f/v Carol M:

This was also written on the label:

Carol M premium handpacked tuna was caught for you off the coast of Washington and Oregon. Cooked once in its own juices, it has a look and flavor you won’t soon forget. Wild Pacific Troll caught albacore is a highly sustainable fishery that complies with Marine Stewardship Council Certification, so enjoy this can with a guilt-free conscience. Captain Mike and our boat cat Florence also recommend you don’t drain the juice — it’s the best part! So from our boat to your table, enjoy!

Visualize:

I accepted the cans, and the Volkswagen remained in front of my house for another day.

Several days after that, I sampled the merchandise. The tuna was delicious and guilt-free — just as promised. And she was right: It tasted wonderful with the water in the can.